SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Interact with your favorite SCM authors, producers, directors, historians, archivists and silent comedy savants. Or just read along. Whatever.
Brent Walker
Capo
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:06 am

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Brent Walker » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:01 pm

Michael J Hayde wrote:
Brent Walker wrote:I'm still convinced there is a 37th Chaplin Keystone film out there, which would actually be his first released: HOW MOTION PICTURES ARE MADE, the most likely candidate for that mysterious frame of Chaplin with Mabel Normand at the switchboard.


There may be a 38th, if you and the other Mafiosi would scroll to the mysterious newspaper ad at the bottom of my blog's plug of this historic find.

http://betterlivingtv.blogspot.com/2010 ... found.html

Michael


Michael, I see what you're talking about--that ad for ZUZU THE BANDLEADER from August 1914, listing Arbuckle and Chaplin in the cast. That was a kind of weird two-reeler in that it seems like Sennett all or partially distributed it outside of Mutual (this was when he was still getting flak from them about delivering two-reelers instead of the contracted one-reelers). However, it was filmed in September 1913 and finished in mid-October 1913, a couple months prior to Chaplin's arrival. And it seems very common on Keystone ads (though this one is for a theater and not for Keystone specifically) to list all their stars in a film in which only one or two appeared. The earliest Keystone releases list Mabel Normand, Ford Sterling and Fred Mace in the cast of almost every film, though when you see the film you discover it only contains maybe one of them. I've seen a couple of stills from ZUZU, but the film isn't known to exist. However, by August 1914, they might have even put it out again with some footage of Arbuckle and Chaplin edited in from something else. But until an actual print shows up, we'll never know for sure.

Michael J Hayde
Associate
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:33 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Michael J Hayde » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:26 pm

Brent Walker wrote:Michael, I see what you're talking about--that ad for ZUZU THE BANDLEADER from August 1914, listing Arbuckle and Chaplin in the cast. That was a kind of weird two-reeler in that it seems like Sennett all or partially distributed it outside of Mutual (this was when he was still getting flak from them about delivering two-reelers instead of the contracted one-reelers). However, it was filmed in September 1913 and finished in mid-October 1913, a couple months prior to Chaplin's arrival. And it seems very common on Keystone ads (though this one is for a theater and not for Keystone specifically) to list all their stars in a film in which only one or two appeared. The earliest Keystone releases list Mabel Normand, Ford Sterling and Fred Mace in the cast of almost every film, though when you see the film you discover it only contains maybe one of them. I've seen a couple of stills from ZUZU, but the film isn't known to exist. However, by August 1914, they might have even put it out again with some footage of Arbuckle and Chaplin edited in from something else. But until an actual print shows up, we'll never know for sure.


I found other ads for ZUZU throughout 1914; one from April lists Ford Sterling in the cast. That would be intriguing if footage of Chaplin/Arbuckle/whoever was added to the film for re-release... making it a Keystone precursor to the "Fantasia" concept.

Thank you for responding so quickly, Brent. I'm very much looking forward to buying your book at Slapsticon.

Michael

Rob Farr
Godfather
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Our Nation's Capitol

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Rob Farr » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:58 pm

Great research Michael!
Rob Farr
"If it's not comedy, I fall asleep" - Harpo Marx

Michael J Hayde
Associate
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:33 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Michael J Hayde » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:08 am

Rob Farr wrote:Great research Michael!


Thank you, Rob. First, I have to say I owe everything I've done - literally, everything - to Bo Berglund; specifically to his landmark article "The Day the Tramp Was Born" in the Spring 1989 issue of Sight and Sound. From that, I gleaned the best way to document TV, radio, film history: go back to the source material and start digging. Sounds obvious, but it was literally an epiphany that soon had me scrolling through miles of microfilm at the library.

In light of this discovery, I went back and re-read the article this afternoon. I was particularly intrigued with the excerpts from Robert Florey's interview(s) with Henry Lehrman. As Berglund noted, Lehrman has the chronology down almost perfectly, as regards the shooting of Making a Living, Kid's Auto Race and Mabel's Strange Predicament. Then he says, "Three weeks later, I directed in a few hours the fourth Chaplin film in the street outside the studio. This took place in February 1914 and that was the last time I worked with Chaplin."

Berglund assumes, understandably, that this refers to Between Showers. Perhaps it does, although Lehrman doesn't mention a title. But as we now know from John Bengston's Silent Traces, Between Showers was certainly not shot "in the street outside the studio" but several miles away, on Wilshire approaching downtown. And it's an awfully complex film to have been completed "in a few hours."

So... could Lehrman actually be referring to A Thief Catcher, or to Chaplin's scene(s) in it? A closer look at the locations used would be one more reason to anticipate this screening.

Michael

Richard M Roberts
Godfather
Posts: 2895
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:30 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Richard M Roberts » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:47 pm

Michael J Hayde wrote:
Rob Farr wrote:Great research Michael!


Thank you, Rob. First, I have to say I owe everything I've done - literally, everything - to Bo Berglund; specifically to his landmark article "The Day the Tramp Was Born" in the Spring 1989 issue of Sight and Sound. From that, I gleaned the best way to document TV, radio, film history: go back to the source material and start digging. Sounds obvious, but it was literally an epiphany that soon had me scrolling through miles of microfilm at the library.

In light of this discovery, I went back and re-read the article this afternoon. I was particularly intrigued with the excerpts from Robert Florey's interview(s) with Henry Lehrman. As Berglund noted, Lehrman has the chronology down almost perfectly, as regards the shooting of Making a Living, Kid's Auto Race and Mabel's Strange Predicament. Then he says, "Three weeks later, I directed in a few hours the fourth Chaplin film in the street outside the studio. This took place in February 1914 and that was the last time I worked with Chaplin."

Berglund assumes, understandably, that this refers to Between Showers. Perhaps it does, although Lehrman doesn't mention a title. But as we now know from John Bengston's Silent Traces, Between Showers was certainly not shot "in the street outside the studio" but several miles away, on Wilshire approaching downtown. And it's an awfully complex film to have been completed "in a few hours."

So... could Lehrman actually be referring to A Thief Catcher, or to Chaplin's scene(s) in it? A closer look at the locations used would be one more reason to anticipate this screening.

Michael


Excepting, as Brent Walkers book indicates, Lehrman didn;t direct A THIEF CATCHER, Ford Sterling did.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Michael J Hayde
Associate
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:33 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Michael J Hayde » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:19 pm

Richard M Roberts wrote:
Excepting, as Brent Walker's book indicates, Lehrman didn't direct A THIEF CATCHER, Ford Sterling did.

RICHARD M ROBERTS


The press report in THE BIOSCOPE credited Lehrman with directing the film, and I'd thought they got that information from you. My bad; since I don't have Brent's book yet, I'll just shut up and get out of the way.

Incidentally, "the spineless weasel at that other minor board" is at it again.

Michael

Phil Posner
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Phil Posner » Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:17 pm

Rob Farr wrote:It was mentioned in Peter Haining's British book about Chaplin referencing a 1965 interview. Chaplin's last interview was in 1966 around the time of Countess by Richard Meryman. It appeared in the UK Guardian and US Life in 1967, but he doesn't mention being a Cop.


As I've said elsewhere, this is an amazing, momentus find and I wish I could come to Slapsticon to see it. I heartily congratulate Paul, and all of us happy Chaplin fans.

I've gone through all the clippings I have from the mid sixties, both My Autobiography and Countess related and have found no mention of CC in the Kops. Haining, in the above mentioned book also quotes Groucho as saying that Chaplin had acted as a Kop when he first got to Keystone, but we have no way of knowing how Groucho knew this. . Since Haining is a Brit, perhaps the 1965 interview to which he refers only appeared in the UK. But Haining's Centenary book is the only reference I've seen to it. I also checked the early RJ Minney bio and others and there's no reference in there either.
Phil

My Chaplin site - www.philposner.com

Richard M Roberts
Godfather
Posts: 2895
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:30 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Richard M Roberts » Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:28 pm

Phil Posner wrote:
Rob Farr wrote:It was mentioned in Peter Haining's British book about Chaplin referencing a 1965 interview. Chaplin's last interview was in 1966 around the time of Countess by Richard Meryman. It appeared in the UK Guardian and US Life in 1967, but he doesn't mention being a Cop.


As I've said elsewhere, this is an amazing, momentus find and I wish I could come to Slapsticon to see it. I heartily congratulate Paul, and all of us happy Chaplin fans.

I've gone through all the clippings I have from the mid sixties, both My Autobiography and Countess related and have found no mention of CC in the Kops. Haining, in the above mentioned book also quotes Groucho as saying that Chaplin had acted as a Kop when he first got to Keystone, but we have no way of knowing how Groucho knew this. . Since Haining is a Brit, perhaps the 1965 interview to which he refers only appeared in the UK. But Haining's Centenary book is the only reference I've seen to it. I also checked the early RJ Minney bio and others and there's no reference in there either.



It's mentioned in Hainings book and on page 125 of David Robinson's Chaplin Biography , he says:

“More than fifty years later [than 1914] Chaplin told an interviewer that he had actually played bit roles as a Kop in Keystone films, though so far none of these appearances has been identified”


So there you have it.


But you know folks, it's all kinda moot now, `cause with the discovery of A THIEF CATCHER, we now know it for sure anyway.


RICHARD M ROBERTS (welcome to the Group Phil.)

Rob Farr
Godfather
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Our Nation's Capitol

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Rob Farr » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:42 pm

NIce article in The Washington Post about A Thief Catcher and Slapsticon. Good quotes from Paul and Richard. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06255.html
Rob Farr
"If it's not comedy, I fall asleep" - Harpo Marx

Paul E. Gierucki
Godfather
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 4:23 pm

Re: SLAPSTICON 2010 to unveil lost and unknown Chaplin Film

Postby Paul E. Gierucki » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:14 pm

A few small points of correction to the various news articles:

The film was not labeled. I unspooled a few feet and recognized it as an early Keystone title.
I set the print aside for cleaning and repair as there were damaged sprockets and bad splices.
Upon screening the print a few months later, I instantly recognized that it was Chaplin in an
undocumented role -- he is unmistakable -- and immediately contacted Richard for additional
verification. (I simply couldn't believe what I was seeing!) We then passed the information
along to several additional Sennett experts, all SCM members, for additional authentication.
We thoroughly researched and documented the find prior to making the first announcement.

Waley's 1938 article in Sight and Sound presumed that A THIEF CATCHER was a Chaplin film
(it is not, it is a Ford Sterling vehicle in which Chaplin makes an unbilled appearance) but the
title was later dropped from the BFI's filmography as an erroneous entry. We do not know how
this happened but it is logical to assume that the BFI eventually recognized it to be a Sterling
film. As there were no known surviving prints to reference, no additional proof of Chaplin's
appearance, the entry was deleted.

We'll share the full story of the discovery and subsequent research at Slapsticon.

-- PG


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests