Nitrateville General Jack-Assery: A Load of Jitter-Judder

So you want to discuss silent drama, science fiction, horror, noir, mystery and other NON-COMEDY films? Look no further, this is the place.
Richard M Roberts
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Re: Nitrateville General Jack-Assery: A Load of Jitter-Judde

Postby Richard M Roberts » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:09 pm

Looked over at Nutrateville today and saw Rodney Sauer has joined the silly-ass argument today trying to justify the slowing down the speeds on silent films that apparently cause this so-called “Blu-Ray Jitter-Judder”. He says that variable speeds was common practice, “especially in the first-rate houses”, and it is perfectly historically correct….

Well, again, he shows his ignorance and bias towards slower speeds here. Actually, a “first-rate” house (I’m assuming he means a “first-run” house, but considering his other misinformation, who expects him to actual know the correct terminology) like, say, the Capitol Theater in Manhattan, would be more likely to cut a film for time than mess with speed changes, but we can give him the benefit of the doubt there and say, yes, when projectionists had time to monitor a film that closely, they might do a bit of rheostat adjusting, but it was rarer than he thinks, and I knew several silent-era projectionists who told me exactly that.

Where Sauer starts spreading it pretty thick is when he brings up FOUR HORSEMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE (1921) as an example of needed rheostat-turning. He says the tango-sequence is “woefully undercranked” and benefits from a bit of slowing. Hmm, the Producers and Director of the film apparently disagree with Sauer, I quote the actual cue-sheet for the film:

'The correct speed is 12 1/2 minutes per 1,000 ft.- not any slower- and mark off, then make sure and hold it. Speedometer should be used and film should be run registering 86 revolutions per minute.” (Actual Speed: 21 1/2 fps.).

So the folk that made the film want it at one specific speed, the tango sequence is deliberately undercranked because Ingram wanted it that way, to give it energy when run at the proper speed, but why would Sauer listen to the people who made the damn thing, he thinks they’re wrong.

And you know, I just realized that being over here now, I can truly speak my mind about how lame I think the Mont Alto Orchestra’s scores are, truly lame, poncy, energy-sucking scores, designed to make any film boring, and certainly comedy-killing. Hi Rodney!


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Richard Warner
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Re: Nitrateville General Jack-Assery: A Load of Jitter-Judde

Postby Richard Warner » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:57 am

Richard, I think that appreciation of accompaniments to silent films is a very subjective thing. I happen to like Mont Alto's scores a lot. I've just finished watching Cut To The Chase and, for me, Mont Alto's scores were the best of the lot and certainly not comedy-killing. The accompanists I really can't get with at all are the Alloy Orchestra, Club Foot Orchestra and Dave Drazin, but others rate them highly.
And before you accuse me of being a know-nothing ignoramus, I'm a (retired) musician (banjo, cornet & guitar) and, no, I don't know Rodney personally!
Richard W.

Richard M Roberts
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Re: Nitrateville General Jack-Assery: A Load of Jitter-Judde

Postby Richard M Roberts » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:00 am

Richard Warner wrote:Richard, I think that appreciation of accompaniments to silent films is a very subjective thing. I happen to like Mont Alto's scores a lot. I've just finished watching Cut To The Chase and, for me, Mont Alto's scores were the best of the lot and certainly not comedy-killing. The accompanists I really can't get with at all are the Alloy Orchestra, Club Foot Orchestra and Dave Drazin, but others rate them highly.
And before you accuse me of being a know-nothing ignoramus, I'm a (retired) musician (banjo, cornet & guitar) and, no, I don't know Rodney personally!
Richard W.


It i perfectly okay to disagree with me on such indeed subjective things Richard (even when you're wrong). I will even go so far to say that I like the Mont Alto's scores better than ones by the first two you mentioned, but it is akin to choosing the blow on the head over the ax in the leg. Mont Alto's tempos seem to me to have a range from tepid to stately, and their Palm Court-style of playing is about a decade off from Charley Chase's very 20's comedy style, but if you like your comedy relaxing and cushy comfy, that's your business.

How do you play a banjo, cornet, and guitar all at once?

RICHARD M ROBERTS

Richard Warner
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Re: Nitrateville General Jack-Assery: A Load of Jitter-Judde

Postby Richard Warner » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:43 am

How do you play a banjo, cornet, and guitar all at once?

With great difficulty, Richard. That's why I'm retired. Incidentally, I'm perfectly happy with you disagreeing with me disagreeing with you, even if I think YOU'RE wrong etc. etc. drone zzzzzzzz.......
Glad we agree on a couple of orchestras anyway, i.e. those who strive to be funnier than the films. Oddly, though, I was going to mention that I do like Ken Winokur's score for Tillie's Punctured Romance, but I'll only set you off again...

Richard W.

Richard M Roberts
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Re: Nitrateville General Jack-Assery: A Load of Jitter-Judde

Postby Richard M Roberts » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:55 am

Richard Warner wrote:How do you play a banjo, cornet, and guitar all at once?

With great difficulty, Richard. That's why I'm retired. Incidentally, I'm perfectly happy with you disagreeing with me disagreeing with you, even if I think YOU'RE wrong etc. etc. drone zzzzzzzz.......
Glad we agree on a couple of orchestras anyway, i.e. those who strive to be funnier than the films. Oddly, though, I was going to mention that I do like Ken Winokur's score for Tillie's Punctured Romance, but I'll only set you off again...

Richard W.



I would expect nothing more from someone who tries to play a banjo, cornet, and guitar all at once.

But there's a score that's actually about a decade to late for the film, and as for trying to be funnier than the film, it tries very hard and fails miserably. Actually, the Mont Alto tunes, perhaps played a bit peppier than they tend to do, would work almost perfectly. TILLIES is actually a genuine spoof on Victorian melodramas (with Sennett also taking a pretty nice dig at his old boss Mr. Griffith), and when played that way, as Phil Carli brilliantly did at Slapsticon a number of years ago, the film makes a lot more sense and really comes to life. Winokurs score is a lot of twaddle, if a bit more actually musical than his Alloy Orch rattlings.


RICHARD M ROBERTS


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